Which Gang of Criminals Will Rule Us?
ROCKWELL:
Well, good morning. This is the Lew Rockwell Show, and what an honor
to have as our guest today, Mr. Jesse Ventura. Jesse is, of course,
the former Independent governor of Minnesota. He’s a former U.S.
Navy SEAL, former professional wrestler. He’s a movie actor, visiting
fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government – where I’m sure
he shook them up, as they should have been shaken up – of course,
a New York Times best-seller, and the host and the executive
producer of the wonderful TruTV series, Conspiracy Theory with
Jesse Ventura. And Jesse’s last book, which I loved – and we’ll
link to, of course, all his books and his web sites and so forth
– was 63
Documents the Government Doesn’t Want You to Read.
But, Jesse,
I want to talk to you today about your newest book – very exciting;
I have it right here on the desk in front of me – DemoCrips
and ReBloodlicans: No More Gangs in Government. Now tell
us about the two political gangs in government.
VENTURA:
Well, they’re just that. They are like gangs. They parallel gangs
completely. I am a bit of a voice of experience. Many people didn’t
realize but I write in this book that I was a member of the Mongol’s
outlaw motorcycle club earlier in my life and I spent a few years
doing that, so I do know what they are, and I’ve also been in government,
and they’re gangs. Laughingly, they actually do even steal their
colors, because the Crips’ color is blue. Well, what’s a blue state?
That’s a Democratic state. The Red color, naturally for the Bloods.
What’s a red state? That’s a Republican state.
And they go
beyond that. In a gang like that, your first loyalty is to the gang.
Well, in their case, the first loyalty – if you want to use the
word “party,” but I show Webster’s Dictionary definition of “party”
and that’s a festive occasion. It has nothing to do with political.
They just use it that way to portray what they want. But loyalty
has to be to the gang or the party first.
And then, second
loyalty is how they make money. Well, that’s exactly what you have
with these two political parties. Their second loyalty is to their
donors, to the people that bribe them. And it’s interesting because
these two parties have created an entire system in the United States
today based upon the concept of bribery. Now, if we do bribery in
the private sector, we go to jail. Yet, it’s alive and well in our
political arena and the Democrats and Republicans are responsible
for it.
ROCKWELL:
And, you know, when somebody descents from a party, they’re pretty
brutal to them, as we’ve seen recently with the campaign of Ron
Paul.
VENTURA:
Oh, yes. They’re just like street gangs. If any other unit or any
other entity comes into their turf or territory, they destroy them.
Or, in the case of Ron Paul, he was about as welcome in the Republicans
as the red-headed step child that shows up on the day you read the
will.
(Laughter)
ROCKWELL:
And, of course, they even – you know, I think they actually finagle
some of the votes. They certainly have engaged in some pretty nasty
practices involving delegates and done everything possible to suppress
his candidacy. And, of course, they succeeded.
VENTURA:
Yes. And they go beyond that. They control, the two gangs control
the presidential debates. I’ll give you a little history on that.
Back in ’92 was the last time we save third-entity debate, and that
was Ross Perot. Well, Perot scared the hell out of them. Perot got
one out of five votes, close, like 19.7 percent, near 20 percent,
you could call it. Well, up until that point, all presidential debates
fell under the League of Women Voters. They determined who would
debate. Well, then the two gangs, the two parties took it over.
They took it away from the League of Women Voters and they formed
the Federal Debate Commission. Well, ironically, the two heads of
the Federal Debate Commission was two former partier gang leaders.
And so they now determine who you get to hear. And we have not had
a third voice in a debate since ’92.
In fact, I’ll
tell you what happened in ’96. Bob Dole didn’t want Perot debating
because he felt it would erode from his conservative base. Bill
Clinton didn’t want debates at all because he was so far ahead,
debates could only bring him down. So they conspired; they reached
an agreement to eliminate Perot and, in turn, Clinton got to say
how many debates there would be and when they would be. Well, up
until that, you always had three presidential debates and one V.P.
debate. That year in ’96, there were only two presidential debates
because Clinton didn’t want any, and he got to determine when they
would be. And by design, the two presidential debates were held
the same night as the World Series.
ROCKWELL:
And so, Jesse, those who tell us that if only we elect Romney, things
are going be better off –
(Laughter)
– or if only
we reelect Obama, things will be better than Romney. Really, to
us, the taxpayers, to the average American living in this police
state, it doesn’t really make any difference, does it?
VENTURA:
It does not. You’re correct. You’re completely correct on that.
It makes no difference. And the reason why, the major reason? Because
the corporations have already paid off both sides. If you go to
the Democratic or Republican conventions, you’ll see the same corporate
power there with their bags full of money, paying off both sides.
I mean, I find it astounding, the hypocrisy. Barack Obama rails
on Wall Street to get his major contributors, Goldman Sachs, you
know? That’s the essence of the whole thing. And, you know, so they
always – they tried this to me in Minnesota.
And mainstream
media collaborates with it. Because let’s remember now, mainstream
media is now controlled. 20 years ago, there were 40 independent
media outlets. Today, we’re down to four because of corporate takeover.
They own everything. So they not only control our politicians, they
now control the media and what we hear and what knowledge we get.
ROCKWELL:
Jesse, we have these two visible political parties and we have the
visible media, but you’ve talked for a long time about just how
dangerous the CIA and similar entities are. Do they play a role
in American politics?
VENTURA:
I don’t know. If they do, probably behind the scenes, because, you
know, the CIA is very secretive and they don’t usually do anything
above board. Whether they do or not, I’m not privy to it. You know,
I was just a governor and so I didn’t even get – I was kind of offended
I never got invited to the Bilderbergs after I became governor.
(Laughter)
I never figured
out why.
(Laughter)
I thought,
gee, I’m a governor now. Shouldn’t I be able to go and see what
happens when the Bilderbergs – when they meet?
(Laughter)
ROCKWELL:
Well, I do know, for example, in the case of the Ron Paul campaign,
there were, let’s say, people involved in the – close to the intelligence
community who were very, very concerned about his foreign policy.
They love the Fed, of course, but they really weren’t really concerned
about his strictures against the central banking.
VENTURA:
Yes.
ROCKWELL:
But when it came to the empire or the constant wars, constant interventionism,
they were worried. They didn’t like somebody talking about these
kinds of things.
VENTURA:
Oh, absolutely not. And, you know, I find it very interesting, just
as an example, OK, we now fly not only these unmanned drones for
surveillance over our own country, but when we flew the one over
Iran and it crashed and we wanted it back and all that, well, how
would we feel if, say, Hugo Chavez, of Venezuela, was concerned
about his country and the United States intervention there, which
we love to, of course, because Hugo nationalized the oil and booted
out Exxon, you know, because he felt that the people of Venezuela
should benefit from their own natural resource, which seems fair
to me. Well, how would we feel if Hugo Chavez bought one of these
unmanned drones and flew it over the United States for surveillance
and it crashed here? We would declare war. See the hypocrisy of
it? We can go throughout the world and put other countries under
our surveillance, but if they did that to us, we would declare war
on them. And it’s ridiculous.
And going back
to Ron Paul, I stand with him 100 percent. Close all these bases
throughout the world. We have the technology today, we could be
anywhere. Why do we have six bases in Japan and four or five bases
in Germany? Weren’t those wars over 60 years ago?
ROCKWELL:
Well, of course, it’s for purposes of control, isn’t it? I mean,
I always think that –
VENTURA:
Sure.
ROCKWELL:
– when Germany and Japan salute and buy vast numbers of U.S. treasury
bonds, which maybe are not in their own interests, if can’t hurt
when the treasury salesman comes to call that he’s got atomic weapons
all over their countries.
VENTURA:
Yes. And, well, you also notice – I’ll give you another little thing.
You know, we’re all so worried about Iran getting nuclear, right?
Well, we forced them into it. And I’ll explain why. You notice that
we don’t bother anyone that has nuclear capabilities. So all these
third-world countries and countries throughout the world are going
to attempt to get it because that way they get off the hit list,
you know? We only go after people that don’t have the nuclear capability.
So naturally, Iran probably desires to get it.
ROCKWELL:
Well, certainly, every country in the world, every head of state
realizes that Moammar Gadhafi gave up his nuclear capacity in a
treaty with the U.S. and then the U.S., of course, kills him.
VENTURA:
Well, you know – (laughing). You know, again, I’m not privy to everything
on U.S. foreign policy, but I got banned from FOX News because I
made the statement on there one time that I couldn’t understand
why we’re so shocked that terrorists would attack us when we’ve
been practicing terrorism for 50 years. And the guy – I forget who
it was – got all indignant with me and says, well, give me an example.
I said, I’ll give you an example. How about Cuba? Cuba has never
done anything to us. They simply have a different form of government
than we have. And yet, we’ve burned their cane fields. We’ve blown
up ships in their harbor. We’ve attempted to assassinate Fidel Castro,
their president, on multiple occasions. And the best one – have
you ever heard of this guy Orlando Bosch?
ROCKWELL:
Yes, the – yes. Tell us about him. The terrorist, yes.
VENTURA:
Yes, well, he blew up a Cuban airliner with a bomb with 73 civilians
on it, and he was pardoned by George Bush, I. Now, is that not an
act of terrorism? Blowing up an airplane with a bomb?
ROCKWELL:
Of course, George Bush, I, was head of the CIA.
VENTURA:
Sure.
ROCKWELL:
A lot of people think he was actually in the CIA much longer than
that and –
VENTURA:
Oh, he was.
ROCKWELL:
– very much in –
VENTURA:
I believe it.
ROCKWELL:
Yes.
VENTURA:
If you go back in history and look at the Bay of Pigs invasion where
Kennedy wouldn’t support the invasion with our military, well, there
were two ships there supporting the invasion. They were both with
Zapata Oil, which was what George Bush owned. And, in fact, one
of the ships was even named “The Barbara.”
(Laughter)
I think that’s
pretty telling.
ROCKWELL:
Yes.
VENTURA:
Yes. Now, they were there in support of the Bay of Pigs invasion,
which was a totally CIA-sponsored invasion and war.
ROCKWELL:
No, and, of course, Cuban exiles have always been very close to
the CIA. It’s employed them as troops and assassinations and so
forth. So this guy Bosch, when he blew up a civilian jetliner, which,
of course, we would normally, you’re right, ascribe that to terrorism,
but this guy is living happily in Miami.
VENTURA:
Yes. He was pardoned.
ROCKWELL:
And he won’t – they, of course, will not extradite him.
VENTURA:
Yes. He was pardoned for it. You know – yes, you’re right. He’s
living – I don’t know if he’s still alive or not; I haven’t checked
on that. But he certainly was pardoned for that act of terrorism.
So people need
to understand – and if they don’t believe me, there’s a great book
– have you ever heard of General Smedley Butler?
ROCKWELL:
Oh, I love that book, yes.
VENTURA:
Oh, boy. Smedley’s memoirs, he states right there, he said, I –
he’s the most decorated Marine in history. He won two Congressional
Medals of Honor. And Smedley, in his book said, I didn’t work for
the people of the U.S. I worked for the United Fruit Corporation.
Whenever they would go into Central and South America, when they
couldn’t get cooperaton, they’d send in the U.S. Marines to get
it.
ROCKWELL:
No, and that’s, of course – that’s U.S. foreign policy in a nut
shell.
And, Jesse,
you’ve also been a great hero against our domestic police state,
the TSA –
VENTURA:
Oh.
ROCKWELL:
– and all the rest of this stuff. Give us an update on what’s happening
there.
VENTURA:
Well, I wish this country would wake up and listen to what Benjamin
Franklin said. Benjamin Franklin had a quote. He said, for those
that will give up liberty for security they shall have and deserve
neither. And that’s the point. Liberty is security. But we seem
to want to say to our govnerment, oh, please protect us. Well, the
only way a govnerment can protect you is to take your freedom and
lock you down. And that’s precisely what we’re allowing them to
do. The TSA – I don’t fly anymore. You know, Janet Napolitano, the
head of the Gestapo? Well, that’s Homeland Security. I kind of call
it the Gestapo.
(Laughter)
ROCKWELL:
Yes.
VENTURA:
She stated, if you don’t like it, don’t fly. Well, I’m not flying
anymore because I don’t like it.
I have metal
in my body, so when I pass through a metal detector, it’s going
to go off. If I go through naked, it’s going to go off. Well, I’m
then subjected either to the x-ray machine or the sexual-assault
pat-down. I refuse to go in the x-ray machine because I don’t think
it’s safe, especially if you’re flying four times a week, like I
used to. They’re not going to convince me that being microwaved
four times a week isn’t going to have any ill effects on me long
term. And so I got the pat-down. Well, when I got the sexual assault,
it was so bad that I immediately called my attoneys. I said, I want
to bring a lawsuit against Homeland Security and the TSA. And at
first, we were going to sue them under the American Disabilities
Act, because I’m technically disabled because of the metal in my
body. Well, two days later, my attorneys call me back and they say,
well, we can’t sue under the American Disabilities Act. I said,
why not? This is perfect; they’re supposed to accommodate your disability;
they’re exploiting mine. And he said, well, it doesn’t apply to
the federal govnerment. Can you imagine they pass laws that we in
the private sector have to abide by but they don’t have to?
So I then sued
under the Fourth Amendment under the Constitution, reasonable search
and seizure. I wanted to get in front of a jury. I spent $20,000
in hopes of getting in front of a jury. And it went in front of
a federal judge and she threw it out of court, claiming she didn’t
have jurisdiction. Now, this was a constitutional Bill of Rights
question. If a federal judge doesn’t have jurisdiction, no one does.
And that’s the point. Every law suit brought against Homeland Security
and the TSA is simply thrown out of court by our judicial system.
I believe I could have won had I got in front of a jury. That would
have opened up a bag of worms and they don’t want that opened up
and they don’t want discovery, for you to have the right to discovery.
And so – and
they won’t even allow their own employees of the TSA to wear radiation
badges to see if they’re being radiated by these x-rays machines.
And you know who is making big money off these x-rays machines?
Remember Chertoff, or whatever his name was?
ROCKWELL:
Yes, Michael Chertoff.
VENTURA:
Yes. He is making millions because he is with the company that provides
all these x-ray machines.
ROCKWELL:
I noticed when all the fat-cat Romneyites met this last weekend
in Utah, Michael Chertoff was one of the most important briefers
there. He’s supporting Romney, and he was explaining to them about
why there should be more wars in the Middle East.
(Laughter)
So I’m sure
he’ll make money off those, too.
VENTURA:
Well, and what gets me is these chicken hawks that send us to war,
like Dick Cheney. Dick Cheney had five deferments from Vietnam.
Now, I was asked one time by a guy named Jason Lewis, a right wing
talk show host here in the Twin Cities – we were discussing, and
he said that going to war is a very difficult decision. And I said,
Mr. Lewis, I beg to differ; I think it’s an easy decision. He said,
how can you say going to war is an easy decision? I said, simple.
I said, a war is justified if you’re willing to send your children.
ROCKWELL:
Wow.
VENTURA:
If you’re not willing to send your children, how do send someone
else’s? And I believe that with all my heart that a war is justified
if I’m willing to send my kids. Well, I’ve got news for you. There
isn’t one war since I’ve been born – and I was born in ’51 – that
I would send my children to fight in.
And here’s
a little tidbit. Do you realize that, I’m born in ’51 – I’ll be
61 years old next week – we have been at war, the United States,
for over half of my life?
ROCKWELL:
And that’s openly. Of course, covertly, the U.S. has been at war
for all those years.
VENTURA:
Probably, yes, the Cold War and everything else in-between, the
war on drugs, if you want to include that miserable failure. So
we’ve really – yes, you’re probably right. We’ve probably been at
war my entire life.
ROCKWELL:
Jesse, with all the important work you’re doing on television and
your media appearances, of course, your books, you have your finger
on the pulse of the American people, if I can use that cliché.
How are they reacting? I mean, are they all just sheep? Are more
and more people listening to you and waking up, and to Ron Paul
and to others?
VENTURA:
I hope so, but a lot of them are lemmings, you know? They don’t
look left or right; they just get marched right off the cliff. And
I’ll tell you, I’m getting tired of pounding my head against the
wall. I’ll tell you honestly, I don’t know if I’ll write anymore
because this is my book, DemoCrips and ReBloodlicans, that
really has my heart and soul into it, and if people aren’t going
to listen, well, then, you know, I have nothing really more to say,
and I’m not going to repeat myself. And so it’s going to be very
difficult for me to write another book, I think, because I’ve said
all that there is to say from my end right now. And if people aren’t
going to listen to it, well, then I can happily go live down in
Mexico in the far reaches of the Baja, like I do every winter. In
fact, that’s where Dick and I – my co-writer, Dick Russell, that’s
where we team up because he has a home not far from mine, and that’s
where we do these books, where we can be – no distractions, totally
concentrate on them. And that’s why I think that I’m very proud
of every book that I’ve written with Dick.
ROCKWELL:
Jesse, are you freer in Baja than you are in Minnesota?
VENTURA:
Much more. Much more.
You know, I’ll
give you a simple example of freedom. OK, I’ve taken up paddle surfing,
right, which Laird Hamilton, the greatest big-wave surfer in the
world does it, so, you know, you don’t have to be ashamed. It’s
good for us older guys because, if you catch a wave, you don’t have
to get up on the board; you’re already up on the board, and it makes
it a lot easier. Well, I come back to Minnesota this year and I
think, you know, I’m going to buy a paddle surfboard here so I can
keep practicing, because it’s one heck of a workout, too, you know,
when you paddle around and keep your balance and all that. I go
down to buy the surfboard and – get this – I have to license a surfboard
in Minnesota.
(Laughter)
Have you ever
heard of anything –
ROCKWELL:
No, never heard –
VENTURA:
– more ridiculous in your life?
ROCKWELL:
No.
VENTURA:
And it doesn’t end there. Guess what else I’m required to do – wear
a life jacket. Now, I’m a former Navy frogman.
(Laughter)
I’m a former
competitive swimmer. I used to do – not as good – but I used to
do what Michael Phelps did – does. Shouldn’t say “did”; he still
does. He’ll be in the Olympics again. But I’m a former competitive
swimmer, I’m a former Navy frogman, and if I showed up at a beach
in Hawaii, California, where I body surf – and done all that both
places, or in Mexico – if I showed up at a surfing beach wearing
a life jacket, I’d be laughed off the beach. And the point is if
Laird Hamilton came here to do a paddle-board demonstration, Minnesota
would require him to have a licensed board – which there are no
serial numbers on a surfboard, so how do you even know if it’s the
correct licensed board – and Laird would have to wear a life jacket.
This guy surfs 40-foot waves. The biggest wave you’re going to see
in Minnesota on one of our lakes is if a big pontoon boat drives
by –
(Laughter)
– you might
get one a foot and a half.
(Laughter)
ROCKWELL:
Oh, it’s –
VENTURA:
But there’s a simple thing of freedom right there. Why can’t government
allow me to be responsible for myself?
ROCKWELL:
Well, because govnerment, of course, wants its thumb on your head
and its boot on your neck and they want to control every aspect
of your life.
VENTURA:
Yes. You know what’s funny about that, Lew? I, one time – when I
was governor, I asked my staff, I said, go to lunch and come back
and tell me one thing that govnerment doesn’t regulate in your life.
They couldn’t do it. And some of them came up with great – one said
sleeping.
(Laughter)
And I said,
no. I said, you know that mattress you buy? It’s got that tag on
it that says no removal by penalty of law?
(Laughter)
You know, there’s
those tags on mattresses?
ROCKWELL:
Yes.
VENTURA:
I said, so they’re involved in your sleeping also, the very mattress
you sleep on – (laughing).
ROCKWELL:
Well, Jesse Ventura, I can’t thank you enough for everybody that
cares about liberty in this country or around the word for all the
work you continue to do, all the work you’ve done.
I want to highly
recommend your new book, DemoCrips
and ReBloodlicans. It’s a great read, like everything from
Jesse and his co-writer.
Jesse, thanks
a million.
VENTURA:
Thank you, Lew. Keep up the great work.
And I’ll tell
you this, I’m banned from FOX, I’m banned from MSNBC, and I’m even
banned from Don Imus, if you can believe that.
ROCKWELL:
Wow. But you’re not banned from the Lew Rockwell Show.
VENTURA:
So I appreciate it, Lew, for allowing me on.
ROCKWELL:
Oh, an honor to have you.
VENTURA:
Thank you. Have a good one.
ROCKWELL:
You too, sir. Bye-bye.
VENTURA:
Bye-bye.
ROCKWELL:
Well, thanks so much for listening to the Lew Rockwell Show today.
Take a look at all
the podcasts. There have been hundreds of them. There’s
a link on the upper right-hand corner of the LRC front page.
Thank you.
March
12, 2013
Copyright
© 2013 by LewRockwell.com. Permission to reprint in whole or in
part is gladly granted, provided full credit is given.